Episode #10: Compliance-First Innovation with Vik Shrestha
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Vik Shrestha joins us to share the story of his 10+ year journey in the gaming industry, from compliance and management at companies like GLI and IGT to co-founding SB22. He provides valuable insights on the challenges of being an entrepreneur in gaming, staying on top of an ever-evolving tech landscape, and the impact of AI and VR on future innovations.
Notes
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Jordan: Hello and welcome to Level Up with Wondr. I'm your host, Jordan Bloom. And here we are with Vik Shrestha.
Vik has a decade of experience in gaming in the tech industry, really specializing in commercial strategy, player development, and product innovation. He's also the co founder of a development company and recently an advisor on the board of directors at DruStar. So Vik, how did you really get started in gaming and how did you get to where you are today?
Vik: Yeah, that's a great question. So I originally started in gaming at GLI, Gaming Labs International, on the compliance side. And it was incredible because I came from a completely different industry so I had to spend a lot of time learning about the basics of the gaming industry. I got to work with some of the biggest suppliers out there as my accounts, including Aristocrat, Aruze, Sega, VGT, and, and many others.
But at that time as well, I started working with some of the sports betting suppliers and it was just Nevada at the time, but it gave me a great fundamental knowledge of the gaming industry. And from there I was recruited to go be Sega Sammy creations, first US based employee, and I had an amazing, amazing time traveling the world and spent a lot of time in Japan. Macau and other jurisdictions building out an organization.
It was my first time in really a people management role so I had to start thinking about ways to do things differently. From there, I went over, I saw PASPA was going to be repealed pretty soon, and spent some time on the supplier side.
Then I went to the operator side with William Hill, this was when it was Nevada, and it was just going crazy and the market was expanding rapidly and you're trying to do deals all over the place before legislation. William Hill was just one incredible opportunity to be on the operator side and understand their mindset.
From there I was recruited to go join IGT and build out their B2B play sports sports betting business and that was awesome. From there I had an opportunity to be an entrepreneur and co found SB22. I was able to kind of shift strategies and think about what, what I want to do next and really tackle the iGaming industry.
So yeah, that's, -that's kind of my journey.
Jordan: No, that's an incredible progression to really always see the writing on the wall in your career and kind of predict what you want to do next. But did you always have a passion for sports betting and online gaming, or did that really progress throughout your career? What really sparked your interest and really got you to, like you said, working with Aristocrat, working with some of those larger companies, what really like, hey, I want to do this for the long run?
Vik: So what sparked it for me my brother actually worked for GLI for a very long time, so I was always familiar with gaming in general and with the mindset though, of let's say the compliance perspective, right and, and the rules perspective. So when you have let's say strict guidelines in terms of how you can innovate that's what really attracted me to gaming because the innovation is between that, let's say 5 percent of the regulation and what you can do. You're trying to solve for a problem. That's what really attracted me and grew my interest over time in the gaming industry.
Then seeing how the industry has shifted, how it evolves, yet still you have to stay compliant and work within the regulations. That was the, the most attractive thing to me as I grew my career and then just applying that mindset of compliance first and innovate between the lines.
Jordan: That's awesome. So you see compliance as one of the biggest challenges that most of us face as we're trying to build our companies and trying to again, walk across those lines and make things that are innovative, but still fine with those rules. How do you again, work within those confines and overcome those those obstacles throughout your career?
And again, work yourself into the position where you are again, having that compliance background and knowing how to create those games that work for people and can move the market.
Vik: Yeah. So the first thing, especially in the management side is you, you bring in the right people, the right people who understand compliance from a technical perspective. And then you trust them and let them give you the feedback, and if you can't find the person, utilize the companies that are out there who can give you that feedback.
Something I learned early on is that the sooner you involve the test lab to review a product, right? Give their feedback, go through the checklist from a compliance perspective, the greater odds you have at going through the compliance testing process and getting your product approved and ready for the market.
That's just a crucial step, bring in the experts early on before you even build something. So that's crucial.
Jordan: No, and I, and I fully agree. It's about really setting up that infrastructure and making sure that you have good people around you to really build yourself up.
And that's awesome to hear from the management perspective. Because a lot of people are like, Hey, I run a team. Well, and it's me and I lead from the top sort of thing, but it's good to attribute your success to others and really have that sort of mindset.
Hey, this is what got me to where I am today. And what's going to catch me going forward. That's very progressive.
Vik: Absolutely. And it was when I joined Sega and my boss at the time was like, you're an awesome individual contributor yeah, like one of the best I've worked with, but Your results are based on the team's results, Meaning, spend more time training the team, spend more time having the team bring out the best in the team.
That changed my entire mindset early on in my career cause I was in management in my late twenties, and then just to build on top of that is, you have to bring out the best. You have to rely on your team and where there's gaps, you try to help plug it in. That's the, ultimately the way you become successful, and so I've had that mindset for quite some time now.
Jordan: That's awesome. So let's kind of take that and move that into what got you to that entrepreneurial side of your career to where you really wanted to take that management and team leadership, but also like you said, that individual contributor success and really build a company. So you are a co-founder of SB22.
What prompted starting that business endeavor and how did it really come to be?
Vik: I love the idea of always trying to create something that the customer wants, right? So when you understand the customer's challenges and you ask the customer, what are you facing? You know, even if you know the answer, right? If it's customer driven feedback and you start building a product that fills the gaps for what they need.
That's what prompted me is that there are a lot of challenges from a sports betting perspective, from a technology perspective and there was no easy way to really solve for those problems with the legacy tech stacks, and that's what prompted SB22 to say, let's build some innovation, let's bring some of these ideas and let's actually do something about it.
It was very exciting to be a part of that and to be a part of the planning process and the process of getting something to market, getting something certified and of course, great team that actually did the building and actually did the certification. So I have to attribute everything to the people who actually did the work.
Jordan: No, but that's incredible. It is the overall teamwork, but what was the overall vision when you first got in there to when you left it, was it what you expected along that product journey? And what's it like to be a founder of a large company like that in iGaming? What's the entire process going kind of, not the full step by step, but tell us a little bit about the journey and how it you originally envisioned to where, to what it eventually became.
Vik: Yeah, that's a great question. So from a vision perspective, it was very simple, right? Build a sports betting platform that the market needs and that is modern and ready to scale.
Now, along the way in any startup journey, the vision might change a little bit and you start kind of looking at, Hey, what's the latest and greatest? What's, how do we improve things? Which you didn't even set out to do initially. The journey changes. For example the journey started shifting to, okay, all these sports betting operators and online operators are, it's really becoming like media companies, right?
They're buying up at a ton of advertising space. They're buying up channels. They're building out entire businesses around media. And so that's where we started thinking about, okay, why don't we create something from a virtual reality perspective or an artificial reality perspective?
And so we did, right. And it was more about highlighting Innovation for the future rather than, Hey, this is ready right now. It's about trying to show where technology can take the industry into the future. And that all was part of the initial vision and it just kept evolving from there.
Jordan: So what was what you view the largest step in innovation and technology while you were there? Do you think it was VR? Do you think there was something specific that you saw during your time that really took the next step at SB22 and that you and your team were making an impact on to really bring it to that next generation?
Vik: Yeah, I think it was it was back to the fundamentals of the, of the foundation. Because it was built with the latest technology, certain things such as scaling and getting set up in a jurisdiction at a fraction of the cost. It always went back to the fundamentals of why we got into it.
Those to me were the biggest, let's say breakthroughs, in terms of how the technology worked more so than any of the other kind of nice to have verticals. And let's say more innovative things from an exterior perspective is about the internals of the system itself that were more, let's say, breakthrough in my opinion.
Jordan: That's awesome. And I think, again, that plays out to the startup kind of mentality of when you're really trying to break through and it's not as easy as when you walk through with a larger company and you're like, Hey, I work with this person and I want to have this conversation, you're really breaking that ground for yourself.
So that actually leads me to my next question. And what was the transition like? From a large company like IGT to sort of your own startup on the day to day and your overall sort of work schedule and your cadence, how did that really affect you and what was that transition like for you overall?
Vik: Yeah, so I was pretty fortunate that when, after I left GLI, I was working almost like an intrapreneur. So Sega, IGT, a lot of these were you know, not they're, they're large corporates, right, and it's kind of these startup exciting divisions, so a lot of times you're creating processes or maybe breaking processes you didn't even know are there, right? And you're, you're doing things and working at a fast pace. And so I was very lucky to be like an intrapreneur. For multiple companies. Taking that mentality to say, Hey, let's try creating something and enriching myself in the process. Why not? Right.
Let's see if we can do it. And so in terms of the cadence you're, you're just wearing a lot more hats. For me personally I, I never believed in the power of marketing when it came to B2B technology in the past, and then I totally did a 180. was like, Oh man this is marketing is the greatest thing in the world.
Jordan: That's what, that's what we're all doing here now.
Vik: Exactly, yeah. And that's what was the biggest change in my mentality as well, is that the power of marketing, the power of building an ecosystem of other startups in the gaming industry and, and kind of taking that mentality of how do you help startup X, Y, Z, by also helping your own startup through marketing right? And that's what I think we did a great job at SB22, it was the marketing side.
Jordan: No, fully agreed. And that company is still thriving and really making impact and making waves, but it's cool to see how you really progressed your individual skill set in your career and it made you desirable to other people to want to give advice. And that that's actually the different step you took in your career was when you went to Druvstar, which you are an advisor for, why did you join Druvstar?
And how is it different being an advisor instead of just being, like you said, a co founder and being on the day to day giving advice instead of making the calls on what's going to impact the company?
Vik: When I initially left IGT while SB22 was very early in terms of planning process, I was consulting for a few different companies and I loved it in terms of you're, you're kind of there to give your opinion and there to help them make a decision and drive things forward.
So I, I grew a love of the advisory side at that time, and it was probably some of the best times in my life, right? You're a well-paid advisor and you're paid for your opinion and opening your mouth, and there's nothing better than that.
And so with Druvstar, I developed a really good relationship with Druvstar's founder the former CTO of Aristocrat, as well as President of Tech at PointsBet. I initially started working with him through PointsBet, but he doesn't necessarily remember, but I met him in my early days at gaming at GLI, and he actually made a positive impact on me in the 30 seconds that we met back in back in the day.
For cyber security in general, it's just a growing field, so many issues and so many challenges that it really is an area that is going to grow and it needs to be addressed and needs to be continually better because we're going to face more problems. But from an advisory perspective, it's about allowing the company to pick your brain and giving your feedback and I love it.
Jordan: So what do you see as really the next step for Druvstar? And why is this type of company important for iGaming and the sports betting industry in general? And like you said, this compliance and oversight and these things that need to be addressed. So what is Druvstar really doing to circumvent that and make an impact in the industry?
Vik: When it comes to cyber security, you only hear about it when there's a hack, right? Or when there's unplanned, unplanned downtime, and it's so reactive, right? So what I really like about Druvstar is their ability to to create proactive technology. So like continuous monitoring to ensure you don't get to that point of where you have to pay a massive ransom, right? Otherwise everybody's locked out of the system.
To me that while that's very, a very simple way to explain it .Using the latest in AI tools to really create that continuous monitoring environment and having a team of experts kind of guide an operator along the way so they don't reach that the problem situation to me, that's, that's critical in any industry out there.
Jordan: Agreed. So how do you see that again, that stream going forward to make people's information more secure and that they feel secure with the companies that they're betting with?
Vik: I think it goes to the, the whole thing about continuous monitoring to ensure that nobody ever gets access to that information, even, even if it's encrypted or there's ways to decode things. And so just to make sure that the problem doesn't happen before it's a situation, right? Because then what happens, it leads to lawsuits and all sorts of crazy things. To me, that's the most important thing being proactive rather than reactive.
Jordan: Agreed, and it's getting that oversight with the company and like you said, making sure that people's information is safe and that they're doing and taking that next step to lock off that access and make sure that it's only being used for the things that it should be intended for.
Vik: Exactly, and the hardest thing is that you'll have typically your IT groups or your cybersecurity groups say we need this, or it's going to be a problem. And then upper management, typically they budget out, right that, Hey, we're going to spend X amount and Y amount on this and that until it's a problem.
And so it's better just to spend the money and make sure it's not a problem, otherwise it's going to always be way more expensive.
Jordan: Agreed. I don't think you're ever going to go wrong with taking that next step to level up your safety and make sure that you're again as compliant as possible. I don't think you hear many complaints about people being too compliant. So,
it's a good, it's a good place to be.
Vik: Yeah, it's just like insurance, right? You always complain about paying for insurance until you need it, and then you're like, oh man, thank god I had insurance.
Jordan: A lot of money moving in this industry, so it's good for people to feel safe and secure. But we we got to talking a little bit in our pre interview about your new endeavor, we didn't discuss it too much. So I'm excited to hear a little more about it. Can you share some of the details and what it's about and what you're looking to accomplish?
Vik: We did close a seed round pretty recently. So super excited about that. Thank you. Yeah, very difficult in this economy.
We got a great team. it's a mix of talent out of the video gaming industry as well as casino gaming. And so half of the team is Japan,
half of the team is in the U.S. And it's really about building iGaming content, so games that bring out, bringing AAA video gaming look and feel and applying a very simple compliance mindset of we know these games can get approved and and we know that these are gonna look really good and be something that's marketable rather than just being a very similar game to everything else that's out there.
These games are gonna be developed as operator exclusives. And we're super excited to formally announce it, formally announce the team as well as formally announce the first game, which is all coming very, very soon.
Jordan: That's incredible. And I'm excited to hear more about it. What type of impact are you trying to make on the gaming industry with this type of company?
Vik: One of the biggest challenges that we're seeing the operators face is, they build out a large database of sports betting customers right? And oftentimes it's, it's so challenging to get that customer to switch over to the casino side. So what we wanted to do is build games that do bring in that AAA video gaming feel that maybe will attract some of those sports betting customers to say that game looks cool, let me click on it, let me go try it out.
And I'm saying this with a smile on my face because I think about problem gambling and not creating a problem, but but yeah, that's, that's the idea is to, try to create some games that that appeal to that crossover crowd. ' I'm not a huge fan of your standard slots, I want to see something different.'
That's where we wanted to try to hit the market with some premium, cool looking games that might do the trick we'll see.
Jordan: No, that's awesome. And it kind of speaks to what we like to talk to here at Level Up with Wondr. We like to talk about innovation and gaming and what new technology and what do you feel is next?
So what do you think if you had to say there's one thing like, hey, I think this is next in gaming and going to make it a significant impact on gaming or sports betting and like, if you again, just, it could be a large product, it could be one segmented thing, but what do you think is going to make the largest impact in the next year or so?
Vik: I think what's going to make the largest impact is is really how AI tools are going to be used.
So, for example, at our new venture because of their their experience and using AI tools for generating content, arts, graphics to actually generating the code to build the game. That's going to create a fundamental shift in terms of the supplier side of the industry.
You're going to see a lot more innovative games being pumped out on a regular basis, whereas In the old way of doing things, it's, it's so expensive or it was so expensive to create a game or take a risk on an innovative game that the suppliers are like, well, let's just do more of the same, right?
We know these are working, why risk it? Why should somebody risk a bonus for that? And so that's where I think we're going to see a fundamental change is how AI is going to change that. So content's going to be different, the way promotions are created and hit the player are going to be very different, which ultimately impacts the way customers are retained as well. Where you have, a 24/7 way to shoot promotions and retention offers that are customized for that player I think everything's going to change from that point and we're going to see the, the large players as well as the small players in the space start, let's say evening out a little bit and that's, that's gonna be really cool to see.
Jordan: Yeah, a lot of that is that marketing impact, and like you said, targeting the right people with the right offers and making sure that they're playing the right offerings for them.
So taking all that into consideration and AI and how it's making an impact how do you think this integrates with new technologies like VR or augmented reality, and do you think that's the next step to really bringing people in and resonating with users, the all encompassing experience?
Like, hey, we're going to want to market through these VR headsets and make sure that this is going to be hitting them as much as possible.
Vik: I do think for a certain segment of the player base that is going to become a bigger and bigger thing. For me personally, I think as of right now it's going to take maybe three to five years to get to that point where you have a base of players who actually want to experience live dealer sports betting, watching games and betting at the same time via VR and mixed reality as well. And so to me, I think live dealer is probably the area that has the most opportunity because from a live dealer perspective, we're already seeing like celebrity endorsements, right? I think Gronkowski did something
Jordan: So, yeah, I saw that recently. He was he was talking to the people in the crowd. It was very cool.
Vik: And, and it's amazing when you are a fan of the team or the player, I mean, it's going to attract you right when you're, when you're targeting that demographic. And I think that's where VR is really going to be impactful to our industry. And it's really about creating that niche market and then growing that niche market with content.
And that's why we always go back to content is King and that's how to actually make that happen.
Jordan: Agreed. And like you said, you see a lot of people in the industry gravitating towards that content, making a bunch of celebrity endorsements and having those sort of deals to where, hey, I know that person, and I'm going to go at least try out that game to have that experience and really make that impact on that customer.
So I think one of the last things we like to do here before we sign off at Level Up is reflect on your career path and talk a little bit about other people that may have inspired you and got you to where you want to be and other advice that you might have for other people to get to where you are.
So who are some people along the way that have inspired you or taught you the most valuable lessons throughout your career to get you to where you are now?
Vik: Yeah, I've, I've had a really great 10 year kind of ride through this industry or a little over 10 years now. I've got to meet a ton of people all over the world and I've always taken the approach that it's better to, not be the expert in everything.
When I was at Sega, and I'm asked to sell ETGs I never did it, and I didn't want to take their approach to the customer of like I'm the expert, right? And 'this is why you should buy' it was instead hey, what don't you like about the current ETGs and ask them the questions, get them excited about sharing their input. But then you take that input and make it part of your game, right?
And I do that everywhere I go. So even at IGT for example, there's salespeople there that, you know, 20 plus years of experience, and you wonder, like, how are they so good at their job? Something I personally learned from, so I'll give a quick shout out to this guy named Tim Shortall is just this mentality of like, you don't have to be the smartest or the best, right? But you just put in the effort, you put in the hours, the hustle and the effort and things happen.
To me personally, I, I've always been part of like, the intrapreneur side so it's about quick results, right? And focusing on that, and then from there, just applying the hustle, the effort, but also realizing that everything in our industry is about long term relationships, right?
So you never take the shortcut of like, I'm just going to say whatever the customer wants to close a deal. It might look good for a quarter, but, you know, one year later, that guy's gonna say this person, you know, mess me up on my numbers and you never want to be in that situation. And so I always take that approach.
It's all about a long term relationship, even if it means sometimes having the difficult conversation early on, you're going to be respected more for, for the longterm. And so always do what's best for the, the company as well as the customer, and ultimately you'll build your relationship and grow in the industry.
Jordan: No, agreed fully. And I think it's about massaging those relationships as much as possible and really creating that environment that feels comfortable for everybody. And like you said, you can learn something from anybody on any day.
But on your personal achievements and personal things that you may have taught to others, what are you most proud of, of what you've accomplished thus far in your career?
Vik: I'm most proud of shifting the mentality from just being an individual contributor to being somebody that can be relied on for the team, somebody that helps the team get better.
Typically, it's challenging, right? There's very different mindsets when it comes to that. And so to me, I'm, I'm most proud of, of the people that I've been able to work with in terms of seeing how they've progressed their careers.
Oftentimes I'll let's say be walking around G2E and somebody that I might've worked with at Sega or some other company comes up to me. To me, the biggest pat on the back or biggest sense of accomplishment is when they say it was amazing working with you or thank you, whatever it is, right, even if they never reported to me and to me, that's my biggest takeaway is that I was able to positively impact somebody in their career.
Jordan: Especially in this industry, when you go to those sort of conferences, we had this discussion previously, when you see people who can have those sort of conversations where you, you're like, Oh, I just was just doing my job. And they're like, Oh, you actually made an impact on my life. That's definitely a positive conversation and really wants to keep you going in this industry.
Vik: Absolutely. And that's what I like most about being in, let's say, a management type role, because if you can just separate yourself from the day to day grind of a job and kind of take a higher level view of, it's not about the short term always, it's about the long term, even with people who work on your team and how do you impact them for the long term?
So even if they move on to another company, they're going to be a rock star there, right? I'm super excited when I see somebody that used to be on my team, just dominate, and even if they say like, "yeah Vik was the worst," I still know they're going to say thank you to me at the end of the day.
Jordan: Yeah, because it's that stepping stone that you really set up and got them to where they are today. Everything has that sort of butterfly effect in this industry that you never know what's going to come out of it.
Like you said, you put in that hard work every day and you're respectful to others and you can really advance in your career.
So this is sort of a two prong question, but what advice would you give to somebody just getting started in sports betting and gaming industry? One from, like you said, that individual contributor perspective, but also we want to hear for people who have that entrepreneurial side, what advice would you give to them on getting into iGaming?
Vik: Yeah. So for the person starting out, I think the most important thing to do is to be able to listen and to be able to ask good questions.
I think it was James Maida, the CEO of GLI who said when I was at GLI, he said it to a room. He's like, I never asked a question I don't already know the answer to right.
It's like almost taking that mindset of be informed, right? So read, do the research, and then when you're in that discussion, ask the question, even if you feel like you know the answer. Maybe what you thought was the answer, you'll get something added on to that, but ask good questions and listen and genuinely take in criticism and take in feedback.
If it's for a product or whatever it is, never get defensive and take it in and make your game better, right? When I started early on in my career, if I heard like, 'Oh, you didn't do something', I just instantly you're defensive and you're not listening and you never take in the feedback, it's, it's doing the exact opposite, always take in the feedback for better or worse.
For the second part of that, from an entrepreneur perspective, gaming in general is set up not for entrepreneurs, right? You have compliance, you have licensing. It's a very difficult industry to be an entrepreneur in. However if you go back to the start of the conversation, if you understand the foundation of gaming, the foundation of compliance and plug in the holes that you have in your own game or your product or company with people that do know what they're talking about, that's when you can start building a company around a product or a vision.
It's very challenging, and there's a million reasons to not do something, but it's, it's great when you can take the risk and even if you fail, take knowledge out of that and try and try again. To me that applies to pretty much any industry, but yeah, being an entrepreneur in gaming is difficult, but there's always opportunity especially if you know, there's a good product market fit.
Jordan: No, and like you spoke to earlier, there's always that, especially in gaming, what's going to happen next quarter insight and you really want to again position yourself for the next 3, 5, 10 years and have that sort of foresight and how you can build out that company. But it is tough in an industry that's moving so quickly and always rapidly involving.
But there is always room for innovation in tech, and it's cool to see the people that come up with the ideas and want to make an impact, so we really appreciate what you're doing, Vik, and what you're trying to show to other people in the industry and make those type of innovations.
But when it's all said and done, and when you look back on your career, what legacy would you like to leave? If you're like, Hey, I'm hanging it up, and this is what I hope everybody remembers about me.
Vik: For me, whenever I go into a new company or a new venture, I always have like a personal, let's say bucket list, right?
Before I know I've done everything I said I'll do. And I, I keep it to myself and I kind of check things off. For me and gaming, when that bucket list is finished is probably going to be when when I know that I've built, built enough of, let's say a coaching tree.
It's almost like, let's say Bill Belech- or or somebody like that, but I've built enough of a coaching tree that a ton of people who I've worked with, who will, you know, who've had positive interactions with me, they've spread kind of all over the industry and they're making things go forward.
I love to think back about GLI and like James Maida and all these guys, a lot of people, they leave GLI and they go on to do great things in gaming. Taking that mindset of like, yeah, they, they might've left my group or my company, whatever it is, but they're over there at X, Y, Z company and they're doing great, or they founded another company.
So for me, my kind of final bucket list is to have a big enough of a coaching tree that's impacting the industry. So when I'm long gone, there's still people talking about like, yeah, I worked with Vik. He was a good guy.
Jordan: And honestly, that resonates so much with me personally and what I want to do with my career. So I appreciate this conversation, Vik, more than you can imagine. And it was cool to hear about the, the ups and downs of going through the industry, especially in that specific tech space where you're trying to be on the cutting edge and be ahead of everybody else.
So again, giving us that insight to your life and giving us that invite to really push forward. We really appreciate that. And thank you for your time today, Vik. It was awesome.
Vik: Thanks for having me and say hello to the rest of the Wondr team for me.
