Episode #12: Responsible Gaming and Sustainable Play with Juan Baez
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As Responsible Gaming Education Month comes to an end, Juan Baez joins the podcast to share the story of his career journey, from his start in community mental health and addiction counseling to his current role as Responsible Gaming Program Manager with Rush Street Interactive. Juan shares valuable insights on the importance of responsible gaming, sustainable play, and the future of the industry.
Notes
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Jordyn Mihok: Hello and welcome to another episode of Level Up with Wondr. I'm your host Jordyn Mihok. September is Responsible Gaming Month so we are highlighting a leader with years of experience in the responsible gaming space. Today we're joined by Juan Baez.
Juan Baez is currently the responsible gaming program manager for Rush Street Interactive. He has over 10 years of experience in roles related to problem gambling and responsible gaming, holding licenses and certifications as an addiction and problem gambling counselor. He has also served as the program chair for the Midwest Consortium on problem gambling and substance abuse and co chair for the National Council on Problem Gambling Prevention Committee. So first of all, I just want to say thank you so much for joining us today, Juan. I'm really excited for our conversation.
Juan Baez: Thanks for having me, Jordyn. Excited to be here.
Jordyn Mihok: Cool. So we'll just start by going into your background. So can you tell us a little bit about your background? How did your career begin and what were some pivotal moments?
Juan Baez: Sure. So I started my professional career working in community mental health. I started as a targeted case manager working in community based services. That was services for kids and youth. Managing their cases ,writing treatment plans, things of that nature, working sometimes directly with the youth in a personal, direct basis and did that for a couple of years and then went on to work in the casino industry in a land based casino.
There was a new casino that was opening in the area in Dodge City, Kansas and I applied and was able to work as a human resources training specialist. Part of my responsibilities were to teach the responsible gaming program. And so I did that was in charge of, many different things around human resources, working with employees, being in charge of things like uniforms and actually some time after doing that for a couple of years, I also worked as a table games dealer for a short period of time.
I think that was really educational to me in the sense that I knew what the problem looked like from a problem gambling perspective. I knew, you know, theory, I knew the educational portion of it. However, to be able to see it on the gaming floor was really educational and eye opening to me.
Even though most people do this for fun, and that is ultimately the goal, there are some people who gamble who will experience some sort of issue with it. So I was able to see that and was able and tried to help these people sometimes and that really helped me to learn.
After that I actually applied for a position with the state of Kansas as a problem gambling specialist and part of my responsibilities were to work in community prevention educating the public at both the state and local levels. I did that for quite a while, close to 10 years. That's when I was really exposed on a day to day basis on working full time around problem gambling and responsible gaming.
After that, I moved to the Las Vegas area and I started working for a company called Kindred Group as the responsible gaming manager for North America. Did that for about a couple of years then, Was able to earn this role with RSI, the Responsible Gaming Program Manager.
I've been doing this since February of this year of 2024. Been learning a lot, been working with my coworkers a lot.
There's an investment in RG within this company. It's been a transition over time and a lot of different experiences that have led me to this.
Jordyn Mihok: That's awesome. I think that you have a really interesting path, kind of going from that community mental health role to more of a corporate gaming role. Did you always want to pursue a career in gaming or was that just something that you kind of fell into?
Juan Baez: It was honestly something that I fell into. When the state owned casino open in Dodge City, Kansas, I looked at it as an opportunity. I loved working in community mental health, but part of me just felt like it was time for something different. I like the gaming industry it was something that felt very natural.
I think there's a certain level of of excitement that goes with the industry and it's a very tight knit community. Once you build your reputation, where people know you, you could really advance within the industry.
I think that that was part of the reason why it was exciting, and it was something that, even though I fell into it, I really enjoyed.
Jordyn Mihok: Yeah, I think that that's really cool. Did you face any challenges transitioning into that role from such a different space?
Juan Baez: Yes, I mean, there was it's its own unique set of challenges. I mean, working in state government, there's some things that happen, , working within the political spectrum and some of the things that happen in fluctuations and in policies that you deal with whenever working in government.
But overall, I think it just came down to trying to move forward and continue on what had led me to some measure of success, which was, trying to be good to people .
So yeah, there were some changes, but overall, I think it still comes down to being able to work well with people. That's perhaps the most important thing when dealing in a professional career or just with any workplace.
Jordyn Mihok: So you also hold an addiction license. Can you share what sparked your desire to do this work and what impact it's had on you?
Juan Baez: Sure. Yeah, absolutely. I currently hold an licensed addictions counselor licensed in the state of Kansas. I also hold a certified gambling counselor certification in the state of Kansas as well.
It was something where I enjoy helping people. Ultimately, I think that that's what drives me my personal life as well as my career. And so I think being exposed to that, to people who had experienced addiction, maybe having my own issues to deal with throughout my life. It was just interesting.
Working in what I did in prevention, there was a lot of people that I knew within that particular job role that were addictions counselors that, had dealt with their own issues around addiction and it was just something that I wanted to do. And once I got that license and certification, then I was able to work part time for about a year in a Community addiction center for treatment of people experiencing some sort of addiction issue.
Did that for about a year part time and it was something where really getting exposed to it and working with people experiencing the issue. It was so eye opening and something that was so personally satisfying and really brought out a lot of passion in what I do. It's something that I feel really helped me to transition to RG and think about it from a clinical perspective, from a brain disorder perspective, this is something that affects your health, and to implement programs and policies and strategies that could help people.
Jordyn Mihok: Yeah, I was going to say, I think that that gives you a really unique perspective coming into the gaming space, like having that background, like I said earlier, but it's really cool work.
Juan Baez: Thank you. Yeah, I'd like to think so.
Jordyn Mihok: So I know that you have also been the chair for the Midwest Consortium on Problem Gambling and Substance Abuse and co chair for the National Council on Problem Gambling's Prevention Committee. Could you talk a little bit about the work that you did in those roles?
Juan Baez: Sure. So with the Midwest Consortium on Problem Gambling and Substance Abuse, the major focus of that organization was to put on a yearly conference, the Midwest Conference on Problem Gambling and Substance Abuse, and it was a consortium of five states in the Midwest.
I was in charge of leading the program committee to put together presentations, put together things like the menu for the conference, where the conference would be, that sort of thing . also there was Some things on the side that the consortium did, like helping train counselors within the region.
It was something that I did quite a few years and was able to work my way up from secretary to just a general board member to the program chair. It was something that I enjoyed doing, it was something where I met a lot of good people and got some really good experience and just helped build my career.
With the National Council on problem gambling, I was the co chair of the prevention subcommittee. That was based on working in the prevention field within problem gambling. So working at the national macro level, being able to interact with professionals all across the country and work on prevention projects, work on putting on trainings and building a group of professionals across the country that could interact and provide support to each other and work within the problem gathering industry and RG as well.
So really educational, really good times in my career that led me to one, meet good people to learn and ultimately to this part of my career that's focused on RG.
Jordyn Mihok: Yeah, that sounds amazing. You currently work for rush street interactive. Could you tell us a little bit about that role? And what kind of things you're responsible for?
Juan Baez: Sure, so I'm, of course, the responsible gaming program manager for RSI, having started this position in February. We work as a small team here. I'm in charge of things like, uploading BEP lists, supervising our RG analyst, dealing with regulator questions, dealing with, day to day analysis of accounts that might be having some sort of responsible gaming issue.
It's a multitude of things, and I think it's really an eye opening position. There's a lot of support from the top around responsible gaming.
On a day-to-day basis, I could be doing one thing and then another thing entirely the next day. It's a multifaceted position and leadership within the organization and working within us as a tight knit group of RG professionals.
Jordyn Mihok: That's awesome. And I know that you're relatively new to this role, but do you have kind of any proudest moments or successes thus far?
Juan Baez: You know, there's quite a few things we've been able to accomplish as a team, but I think what makes me most proud is that we have really come together as a unit.
My direct supervisor Todd Hanzo and our RG analyst Rob Cox, I think we've developed a really strong relationship and we've been able to build upon that and really build policies, really, improve on things that we do on a day to day basis for education, for our employees and different things of that nature.
I think it's what I'm most proud of is the fact that we work so well together as a team and continue to build and continue to improve processes.
Jordyn Mihok: That's great. Really important when there's so few of you in that department too.
Juan Baez: Yeah, we, we do a lot of work and we're busy, but we are always focused on quality and the commitment that we have as a company to RG. So it's something that we're really proud of and that we put a lot of effort to really proud of what we do.
Jordyn Mihok: That's great. Speaking of RG, for those who might be a little bit unfamiliar with what responsible gaming encompasses, how important to the gaming industry is responsible gaming and why?
Juan Baez: I think it's one of the most important things, if not the most important thing within the gaming industry. I think many times we have, of course, the idea that we want to be an entertainment industry for people to have a good time and for people to have entertainment.
Any sort of industry needs to make money so that they can continue to exist, keep the lights on and grow as any sort of business industry does, but unless we could truly focus on long term sustainability then I don't think the industry will have much of a future.
I think about responsible gaming as one, helping people to have fun, of course, but to do it in a healthy way, do it in a responsible way and a way that's long term, sustainable.
There's no point in saying, okay, we're going to focus only on the short term, on revenue, which, of course, everyone has to earn revenue, but we cannot do it at the expense of doing the right thing, which is ultimately what it's about is sustainability. Doing the right thing for the society as a whole, but for our customers as well.
Jordyn Mihok: Absolutely. So you touched on the sustainability aspect. I know we in the gaming industry kind of talk about sustainable play. So is there a difference between sustainable play and responsible gaming and how you approach that?
Juan Baez: I think they very much go hand in hand, even though RG is a focus is mostly on gambling. I think sustainable play can go into other things as well, like video gaming, other types of entertainment.
When you do both, you want to do it in a healthy way, you want to do it in a way that it adds to your life, not takes away from it.
Even though there's a lot of that crossover between responsible gaming and sustainable play, and the focus might be different on the activity itself, but it's ultimately about, you know, doing it in a healthy and sustainable and responsible way.
Jordyn Mihok: So how has the approach to responsible gaming changed or evolved since you first began your career?
Juan Baez: I think, since I started my career and went to the gaming industry, brick and mortar there was a commitment to responsible gaming, but I feel like now the commitment is more ingrained. I think it's a deeper commitment.
Of course, when I first started my career, the gambling opportunities were less than they are now. With the overturn of PASPA in 2018, and the expansion of iGaming and sports betting, I think that I've seen a commitment that is, that is deepened in the industry and just how it's evolving very quickly.
Just an overall deeper, and I think an understanding of the importance of evidence based and best practices and data and, the training of employees is so important within the industry as well. So, in my estimation, it's gotten deeper. There's more resources now for it. There's a bigger commitment from not just the industry, but outside partners.
I've seen a growth in that buy in about responsible gaming and a deeper understanding of just how important it is for our industry going forward.
Jordyn Mihok: Yeah, I totally agree. Growing up around casinos in Connecticut, I feel like I never really saw the responsible gaming aspect of it. But now when you go to these places, you see that these companies have more of a commitment to it and it's more explicit than it was in the past.
Juan Baez: Oh, absolutely. The commitment of monetary and time resources and human investment, human capital for it. It's huge. It's huge.
Even the level of awareness that us as an industry put towards having customers know where the help is, where toll free numbers are, what that looks like in the fact that we encourage responsible gaming and in marketing and so many different avenues.
It's just really grown and it's good to see.
Jordyn Mihok: So what do you think makes a good and impactful responsible gaming program?
Juan Baez: A program that's multifaceted. There's not just one thing that will contribute to a good RG program, but it's many different things working in tandem to lead to good outcomes.
I think a certain level of training for employees so that there's improvement in that buy in as well as something more in depth and training for customer facing staff.
I think that collaboration portion, being willing to work with other resources outside of you as an operator working and really using data to your advantage.
Juan Baez: There's that sort of, working with people and customers in a positive way, but there also needs to be hard data and evidence based behind that. So using multiple amounts of things to be able to implement it into your program is very important.
Jordyn Mihok: So what do you think operators should be doing more of to make gaming safer for players? And does that differ for people that are gaming land based versus online?
Juan Baez: think that there needs to continue to be an investment in research. To build upon evidence base and best practices is so, so important. And that's something that I've seen within the industry is that focus on building and investing in research.
Collaboration, I think it's so important to share whatever resources are created by a certain operator or certain segment of the industry.
There's a lot of differences at times, but within land based and iGaming, ultimately it's about helping people and educating. It's multiple things that we can continue to improve on as an industry, of course, offering tools to players, building upon marketing and making sure that marketing is done in a responsible way so that players are well educated but also know exactly what they're engaging in.
Of course, making sure that only people of age, you know, adults can engage in gambling or at the, at the proper age legally. Continue to commit to the legal gaming market so that there's protections for players. Multiple things, I think that we can continue to improve.
And I think even though that commitment has grown, I think there's still a lot of room for growth and continued improvement. And so it's something that as a industry, we need to commit to not just as individual operators, but as an industry as a whole.
Jordyn Mihok: Absolutely. And have you seen technology kind of playing a role in facilitating more responsible gaming practices as time has gone on?
Juan Baez: Oh, absolutely. In today's world where we have such a rapidly developing set of technology around AI and being able to be proactive and working with individuals who might be experiencing a gambling problem and to be able to identify those based on AI and different types of technologies so that we can do outreach to players so that we can educate them so that we could potentially prevent a problem before it becomes full blown. And so I think that that's very important and to be able to use these technologies and continue to evolve and continue to implement them is so, so important.
Jordyn Mihok: Absolutely. So when we talk about responsible gaming, it's typically associated with real money wagering and sports betting. But we also know that casual and social players can experience problem behavior as well. So do you have any thoughts on that topic?
Juan Baez: Oh, absolutely. When you're talking about free to play social casino games, any type of game where, there's this thought that it's completely apart, but there's a lot of things that cross over between gambling and gaming. it really deals with our brains and into the dopamine process of feeling good of, engaging in these types of behaviors that are supposed to be entertaining and they are entertaining for the vast majority of the population.
But that's, I think, where those differences between sustainable play and RG come into play. Even though there's a lot of crossover, it's making sure that people understand that any type of activity could potentially be problematic. And so encouraging that responsible play, especially with video gaming and social gaming where there is not those strong age restrictions as much with social casino games and other types of gaming. Kids engage in them at younger ages and so, of course, any potentially problematic behavior, age of onset's a huge factor in some of the issues that might happen.
Definitely keeping that in mind and keeping in mind that any -activity is about fun, and if you're no longer having fun and it's affecting your life in a negative way, then it's definitely something to keep in mind. And educating not just customers, but others who engage in gambling or social casinos or just video gaming as a whole, do it in a responsible way.
It's about education and it's about, seeing those crossovers and the fact that It's important to keep in mind and educate customers and others that you know, they could potentially cause some sort of harm if, if not done responsibly.
Jordyn Mihok: And I think it's interesting because these casual and social games some of them you don't even kind of realize that they could be classified as more of a casino based type of game. It's fun, and they have cartoon characters and minigames and stuff like that, but you can, easily get roped into spending real money on it. And especially if you're a younger child, you don't even really realize it if somebody's not kind of monitoring that.
Juan Baez: Oh, absolutely. It's like you said, it's a lot of fun and kind of engages that dopamine process in our brains and the feel good part of our brain. But -ultimately, it could lead to doing it too much, spending exorbitant amounts of real money to continue to play these games.
Trying to help people and do it in a responsible way is very much RG related. And I think it ultimately comes to down to prevention, prevention of problems prevention of issues that it could cause to people.
We're not just talking about gaming and gambling, we can talk about other types of substances, like alcohol or tobacco, or even illegal drugs where if it's something that you're doing too much and it's causing negative things in your life, then you want to think about whether that's something you want to continue to do or, think about it from a harm reduction perspective where, if it's causing issues and you can potentially get to a better place where you have a more healthy relationship with those type of activities, then that's a good thing as well.
I think recovery and staying healthy is very individual. So what works for one person won't work for another person and to be able to engage in any sort of activity and do it in a healthy way. it's for entertainment and ultimately it comes down to that. If you're no longer having a good time and it's causing negative things in your life, then you definitely want to refocus and think about How you can get to a better place and sometimes that might mean stop engaging in those activities, or sometimes it means think about how you can re engage in a more responsible way with the tools that you have available to you.
Jordyn Mihok: So if you could kind of recommend one action that social casino providers could take to encourage more responsible play, what would that be?
Juan Baez: I would definitely suggest something like offering tools to players as well so they can do it in a healthier way with, responsible gaming tools or responsible video gaming or social casino gaming tools.
Also to educate customers, I think it's ultimately encouraging people to take those breaks and also providing resources to individuals who might be experiencing an issue because of their social casino or video game use. There are those resources that exist, so being able to have those and refer customers on to them, do some player education.
Also protect young people. I know at times, of course it's not gambling, but there's some components that might be very close to gambling, like loot boxes and other things. So it's about educating parents as well that if that's an activity that young people are engaging in as a parent, you definitely want to protect your children from any sort of potential harm.
I think it's a another multifaceted approach and just educating people saying that it's something that you can do and it could be a lot of fun, but it could also be potentially problematic. That education portion is just essential for healthy engagement in these activities.
Jordyn Mihok: Yeah. Very important. So you touched a little bit on video gaming briefly, but you used to have a certification in video game addiction. So how did that come about and how was that kind of different from what you do now? How is it the same?
Juan Baez: A lot of those things tie together. Even though it's not gambling, it's about kind of coming to terms with, some of those ties that bind.
Working with youth. I think it was interesting when I worked in, video game disorder prevention and treatment, there was a lot of buy in from parents because they knew that, they might've been exposed to their youth being involved in video gaming at a level that was problematic.
It was very interesting because there was a lot of commingling, I think with gambling and video gaming, even though they're not the same. It plays into technology and engaging in activities that feel good but could lead to issues down the line. Doing some of that community prevention, doing some of that engagement and treatment, it's very, very much tied together.
Jordyn Mihok: How do you see responsible gaming and problem gambling programs changing over the next few years? Are there opportunities or challenges that you anticipate?
Juan Baez: I think as far as change and where the industry is headed to, I see good times ahead in the sense of investment and buy in into the issue. I see a lot of collaboration within different operators and different organizations that are being created and an investment in research around best practices and what works and what doesn't work.
I think intuitively sometimes we think that if we're implementing something into our programs it just feels like it's the right thing to do. Our data might say, no, this is not very effective.
And so I think to continue to grow, implement AI into working with customers and, getting ahead of the issue, responsible marketing, I think has been a huge focus for the industry as of late. So continued use of responsible marketing, making sure that people use legitimate and legal operators for customer protection.
What I see is just a continued investment in RG. And of course, with the growth of the industry and sports betting and other types of activities that are not gambling, like social casinos or video games, I think that people understand that you need to do it in a healthy way.
It's just that investment and resources is where I see this going. I'm excited for what could happen and ultimately help those individuals who experience a problem, refer them onto resources that if they need treatment, if they need other types of resources that they can get them and they know where to get them.
As an operator and as operators, just, being that conduit for doing these things in a healthy way and thinking about it outside of revenue, but just simply doing the right thing and helping our customers to engage in a healthy way.
Jordyn Mihok: Absolutely. So kind of thinking from a more personal level, what is the legacy that you hope to leave behind as a leader in your current role and beyond?
Juan Baez: Good question. I definitely want to feel that I contributed to the field as a whole. But that I worked with integrity that I worked and built some good relationships.
What you can do within, you know, sort of the macro level RG field is just leave it a little bit better than when I first engaged in it and build a good RG program and continue to build a good RG program within my current workplace and build those relationships.
Working with integrity, leaving the field a little bit better than I found it, and continue to grow and to continue to improve our processes, as not just an operator, but as an industry as a whole.
Jordyn Mihok: That's awesome. Finally what advice would you give to young professionals kind of just starting out in the gaming industry, whether that's in the RG space or just gaming in general?
Juan Baez: come in and really be willing to To adjust and evolve. I think sometimes, we get stuck in the same old, same old and everything evolves so quickly and everything evolves in a way that, what was real and what was happening just a couple of years back is not the reality of what's happening now.
Also, I think this is just so important to know that, you can have all the knowledge in the world, you can have all the tools available at your disposal to implement things that you think are important or that are important, but ultimately it comes down to people. I think if you can't build those good relationships, if you cannot work well with people and work with integrity, I think it's going to be difficult to be successful in your career and to contribute to RG or whatever else you work in. It comes down to people. It is the most important thing and and to build those relationships and do it in a way that's, you know, shows integrity and honesty and just comes down to hard work. There is no substitution for hard work and putting in that effort on a day to day basis.
Jordyn Mihok: Yeah, great, great advice. Great way to close this out. So thank you so much for joining us today, juan. I really enjoyed our conversation. I'm sure our listeners will as well.
Juan Baez: thank you, Jordyn. I'm happy to be here and I appreciate you inviting me.
