Episode #3: Mentorship and Sponsorship with Alex Dixon
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Alex Dixon, President and CEO of the Dubuque Racing Association, joins us to tell the story of his unique path as a third-generation casino employee, from growing up in Vegas to managing casino properties across the country. Alex and Wondr Nation CEO Anika Howard discuss the importance of mentorship, sponsorship and family values in his leadership journey while highlighting the role gaming can play in economic and community development.
Notes
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Anika Howard: Hello and welcome to another episode of Level Up With Wondr. I'm Anika Howard, president and CEO of Wondr Nation. For Black History Month we're speaking with black leaders in gaming and I'm very, very excited to to introduce my dear friend Alex, who has made a lasting impact in the gaming industry.
So Alex, I'm gonna talk a little bit and share a little bit about your background for our listeners, and you can kind of elaborate. But Alex is the president and CEO of the Dubuque Racing Association, which is the license holder for Q Casino and the co license holder for Diamond Joe Casino.
He's nearly 20 years of experience in the gaming industry with previous executive roles with Caesars Entertainment, which is where I met you . He's launched and overseen multiple casino properties across the country throughout his career. His current role at DRA, he serves as the board member for several organizations, including Dubuque Bank and Trust, Mogul Hospitality, and American Gaming Association.
So that is a mouthful, but most importantly, and I'm, I'm very pleased to share with you kind of being the co-founder and inaugural co-chair and now you've kind of gone on to be the current advisor for African Americans in gaming.
And so what I really wanna do is talk about your origin story, I know we, in a lot of these, these podcasts, we talk a little bit about what we do or what you do. And so I wanna share, can you share a little bit about who you are and what drives you?
Alex Dixon: Absolutely no. Thank you Anika, and congratulations on this new format. You're always, charging ahead and, and, doing great new things and representing the industry well, so appreciate, joining you today.
But, again, my name is Alex Dixon. I humbly serve as the president, CEO here at Q Casino and DRA, but, but going all the way back, I'm really a third generation casino employee. I take great pride in that, in that, my grandmother who left, you know, really the plantations of Louisiana to move out west to come to Vegas. She moved out to Las Vegas in the 1950s in order to, you know, to be a part of the middle class. And so she was a part of the great migration that so many of our parents left the deep south and went, whether it's north, some folks went to New York, some people went to Chicago, but our family, we went west out to the Bay Area, Los Angeles. But in our case, we we stopped in Las Vegas.
So she was a housekeeper when the strip was really developing and flourishing. And so I'm very grateful, she's 94, , but I think it's important to note that when she first got to Las Vegas, she she couldn't walk through the front door of a casino.
You know, because up until 1960 it was illegal for black people to to walk through the front door. Even Sammy Davis Jr. who was performing on stage would be over on the west side is what we call it, where, where so many of our folks lived in Las Vegas, he'd be over there with us.
That's how my grandmother got to Vegas, raised nine kids joined the industry and, and did, did really well. My dad, he was stationed at Ellisor Air Force Base. He was born in Chambers County, Alabama. And so went to Air Force and that's how he got to Las Vegas.
And then I I grew up in really the, the kind of the suburbs of Vegas and played all kind of sports, was in student government and leadership and, and really just had just an idyllic youth. Vegas, we had a big industry, but it really was a small town. I mean, you know, there was two or 300,000 people as I was growing up, and now there's, you know, close to two and a half million in the, in the Vegas area.
But I left, went to Howard University in Washington, DCI studied finance got exposed to Wall Street, and so I did my first internship with JP Morgan when I was 19. And then went back to Goldman and started out right after school in the investment banking world in mergers and acquisitions, focusing on oil and gas. But I had an opportunity to move to London which I did and had an amazing time. So it was great reconnecting with you just last week back there, but was there, then moved to, to LA and spent the last part of my time at at Goldman in the LA office focused on mergers and acquisitions and media and entertainment. And so from there I jumped into gaming, but but I'll, I'll pause there. That was the, you know, the first part of that, that origin story.
Anika Howard: No, no, that's great. And so what are some of the biggest lessons you've learned along your path? And it's interesting we've talked about this before. What was the genesis of switching from kind of your initial role now into gaming and why was it gaming kind of your first choice of saying, oh, you know, I, I'm third generation gaming, this seems like a path. So if you talk a little bit about kind of that decision to pivot.
Alex Dixon: No, it's, I think it's great, so a couple things. One I would say is that life is all about perspective, and so to me, growing up, gaming was comprised of the frontline entry level roles. Working nights, weekends, hard work, meaning, you know, being a housekeeper, being a valet, being a table games dealer, many of the, the roles that you see when you first walk in.
So even though I worked at, at Goldman Sachs, I, I didn't know how you could enter gaming and not start out, you know, parking cars because that's what my friends who are from Vegas who were 25 or 26, they were either the bouncers at the nightclub, or working, you know, those front lines.
It wasn't until I got back to Vegas after leaving Goldman oddly enough, part of this is, you know, I hit the genetic, not even genetic jackpot, but it's almost like the timing jackpot in the sense of, our generation really is the first to, to go, and at least in my case, I'm the first in my family generation to go to integrated elementary school. And so to that end, when I left Goldman and then was coming back to Vegas and then looking for work, I was able to call upon my counterparts who I'd went to school with, of people who I remembered who, like their parents worked in the industry but weren't like dealers.
And so in this case, I called a guy, his name was Rick Fields, he was the SVP of Casino Ops. He's the one who, you know, when we were in high school, we'd go over to his house before our football games and he good, and you are like, man, you know, he, he doing something right. Like, you know, so you log that. And then when I came back to town and said, man, I need a job because, you know, Jindra my wife we had just, we were expecting our first, we were back in Vegas, and so it's like, what do you do when you're in Detroit and you're just getting married and have a baby, like you go work in auto industry.
You know, in our case we were in Vegas, you go knocking on doors. In this case, Rick introduced me to Bill Hornbuckle. So I went, to Bill Hornbuckle, was the president at Mandalay Bay at the time, and I go into Bill's office and I mean, it was immaculate. Bill. Bill had this like, like nice set up...
Anika Howard: Even still day, right?
Alex Dixon: He was, he, he was immaculate.
And so I come home, leaving Goldman, making good money, and I come, I come to my wife. I said, man, Bill, this guy, he's going places, I want to take this job. Bill said to me like, man, kid, I love you, but the only thing I got is like this hotel manager job. You know, pays like, you know, 50, 55 and I'm like, man, that's, you know, it, it is a blessing, right? But, you know, I went home..
Anika Howard: That's not it.
Alex Dixon: ...and then, and she's like, nah, brother, Uhuh, this not gonna cut it.
The short though, that meeting, it gave me the confidence that says, Hey, this is, I'm headed on the right path this may not be the role, but quite frankly, just the industry wasn't really great at how to take mid-career professionals.
And so later on Caesar's, you know, really Gary Loveman through the President's associate program, although I I didn't go to business school, he figured out how to have an entry point for talent to come into the business at like midpoint. That really was a pathway, because later on, after I did about a year and a half of investment banking, I joined Caesars when Michael Chrome got promoted. He was a president's associate, and then I interviewed with Brandy Ellis and Eric Hessen, so I joined Caesar's along that kind of more president's associates path.
To answer your question is I made that switch because I, I fundamentally loved the business, but I just didn't know how to get in. So that's, yeah, that's how I got to, to Caesars and that's what then took me off into the more general management track of my career.
Anika Howard: No, so that's great. I didn't realize I met you like right at the beginning journey because I met you at Caesar's when you came on there, so that's great. And so you talked about your wife and one of the things that I've admired and watched you as your career has blossomed is really you've had so many roles and moved your family around quite a bit to take advantage of these opportunities.
But what I kind of loved is when I kind of see that you've seem like you've always been able to find supportive and diverse communities in all of these different places that are not necessarily places that you would assume you'd have that. So can you talk about how creating that center for your family is important and what are the things that you've been able to do to do that? Because I think a lot of people, you know that you want to move, but that's kind of a fear, and especially when you have a family, a lot of those things are front and center.
Alex Dixon: Well first and foremost, I hear people when they talk about their family and it, you know, it seems trite, but yesterday was Valentine's Day, so the love is in the air and I'm, I'm grateful for, for Jindra Dixon, you know, my wife, because look, we've moved maybe six times I think, if I think about it you know, whether it's from LA to Vegas, Vegas to Baltimore, Baltimore to Massachusetts, Massachusetts back to Vegas, and now Vegas to to Dubuque, Iowa.
And so there's no common theme among any of those, but what I'd share is that really just when you pick a partner, being equally yoked in terms of how you think about outlook and then having a family or a nuclear unit is vitally important.
So we're here in Dubuque, Iowa. It's a small rural community. It's not the most diverse in the world, but we've we have our, you know, my, our in-laws have moved in with, with us. So my mother-in-Law and Father-in-Law and our brother in-law has, has moved because what we've learned to do is that immediately when you join a community, it's like soak up everything it has to offer and don't wait.
No one is gonna tap you on the shoulder and say, Hey, this is a market need or this is a community need, do you mind kind of going in? And so I'll give you a prime example, we moved here to Dubuque and I took my son to go get his haircut, and we're trying to find a place where there's a black barbershop and there just, there wasn't one. So we go into super cuts and it was as awkward as you could imagine, it's like they were lovely and it was just amazing group of people, but you're just saying, hold on. How there's like, you know, once you look around, like, hold on, it's about six, 7% of the population, there should be a black barbershop.
So we find this guy online, we go to his house and there's like 20 kids sitting in the in the living room, like getting their hair cut. I'm like, man, if you got 20 kids sitting in the living room, you can get a commercial space and really kind of go through. And so rather than, you know, petition and march down the street or ask or whatever else, so, Jindra, my wife, she buys a building, is renovating it, and builds a barbershop. And so in April she's moving in, you know, people into the barbershop. So I, I use that as an example of like, where I'm just so amazed at, there's all the great stuff that we can do, running big businesses, but my wife, who has gone from running political campaigns to working at the US Department of Agriculture to now becoming a real estate developer, she's had a change and morph in every community we've been in.
And that's really the, like, the real story. My stuff is like, look, I build casinos, right? Like, I mean, it's, it's very, it's pretty straightforward and, and help to develop that. But so much of this is just like being rooted in your nuclear family. And if you, you know, have, a spouse and kids, whatever this may be, is helping to be able to say, Hey, the minute you get off that plane, hop right in, and that would be the best advice.
Anika Howard: No, and that's great. And, and now I'm gonna pivot back. Something you said earlier was really important. And so like many industries, you know, especially at the top, gaming is not that diverse, or at least it hasn't been. I mean, we are changing that, we saw that even, you know, when come at ICE in some other places.
But how does this impact your leadership approach? You, you talked about, not initially thinking gaming was an option because you didn't see anyone mirrored in a role that, that was in a leadership capacity or that was kind of beyond frontline. So as a leader how does that kind of experience and as you're, as you're navigating through this industry, how does that impact how you show up, how you lead and kind of the, the, the things that you want to move forward.
Alex Dixon: Yeah. No. I mean, I think, look, you get older, you mature, you realize, you know, kind of who you are and how you can be successful. But one of the things that where I've been fortunate to having been a part of many different organizations is that I've been blessed to learn something from every leader who I've worked for.
And what's great is that I think we all know and understand is almost once you, reach that kind of, let's say VP, SVP, almost general manager level, life and really your career opportunities are a function of how willing you are to move. How, like, what do you want your headaches to be? What type of organization do you want to play in? And luck, right? I, I mean, and so the difference between the CEO of a public publicly traded gaming company and the general manager of a casino is in some cases pretty small.
Like, I mean, like now I've met and interacted, engaged, everybody puts their pants on the same way. No one has a monopoly, but again, if you are able to be the leader of an organization that is in a market that is, has double digit growth. Well, guess what? All of a sudden you're a genius. Everything you touch like, you know, is amazing right? But it, it's, the crazy thing is, is like the largest organizations I've led, led, and run in some cases are, in some cases the easiest to run.
Because if you're in a multi, in a a, a matrixed organization where someone focuses on revenue management, someone focuses on on food and beverage products, someone focuses on all these other different things, you're basically, like in a football context, a game manager.
But, here in my role, which is the smallest I've ever led, it's where my leadership style is most coming to bear and where my, let's say, shortcomings are also on full display.
And so to that end, it's like the, sometimes the weight of leadership helps you understand how, how things are tough. And I'll use DEI as an example. So I'm passionate about DEI because coming up through the ranks, I didn't see, you know, myself reflected in the CEOs or general management roles, but now that I'm a CEO of a company, you know, DEI is a very important piece of it.
But I'm like, like not the best practitioner of it, meaning, you know, even the policies that I advocate for, even the, the diversity that I would like to be able to see and achieve. And so it's, now that you serve as a CEO, you understand that some of the people who are in these positions care really a a lot about it, but it's hard because it's hard to do profits, employee engagement, risk, you know, all these other different things and get the, the things in there, right?
And so I think it's the, the weight of the responsibility of leading an organization helps you understand of how focused and precise that you have to be in order to move the needle on some of these topics. So that's why, when we started the, you know, African Americans in Gaming, we co-founded it like, Hey, you know, it wasn't a big deal, George Floyd, big deal.
Now, it's like, all right, hold on, people are like, oh, if I don't want to do it, I have air cover that I can step out. And so for us, we gotta just keep pushing stay focused because it's gonna be hot then, not then, whatever.
And so that's more so like, back to your question, it's just, look, this stuff's hard. Like there's no other way to put it.
Anika Howard: It is, I mean, and it's interesting because I feel like the pendulum is switching, is slipping back. I mean, you know, like you said, sometimes it's hot, sometimes it's not so much.
And so it's really kind of how do you balance all of those things, and and with that, one of the other things that I know it's been critical in your career, I know it's mine, this idea of mentorship. Mentorship as a career, as a critical piece of, career advancement, but not really just mentorship, but sponsorship 'cause in many cases we're overly mentored and under sponsored, right?
So how do we, kind of, how has that impacted you? And maybe if you talk about someone that has had a very significant impact in your career because they've kind of stepped in and can give, given you that guidance.
Alex Dixon: Well, I, I'll go and I'll name names. Right,
Anika Howard: Yes.
Alex Dixon: It's even better. Right? So one of the first, let's call it sponsorships that was ever really, really meaningful was Gary Loveman, when I was going to get my licensing in Maryland, right? I didn't have everything together in order to get that first one and Gary calls me up out of the blue and says, Hey, we're gonna help you get through this. And so like, I maybe had two meaningful conversations in life with Gary up until that point, but he stepped up and, and I'm here.
You know, Stephen Martino from MGM. He was the first person sitting on the opposite side of that table who helped me go through, right? Robert Rubin, the lawyer who helped me go through there. John Payne at Caesars was a, a person who, I followed him for a year and a half, I jokingly talk about carrying his bags, but I, you have so much of my leadership style patterned after him. You know, Chad Barnhill was a swashbuckling like GM who kind of just gave me the confidence to lean in, right? Aaron Chamberlain specifically how to connect with...
Anika Howard: Legends, legends. Yeah.
Alex Dixon: Of like, to be able to, let's say, kind of go through Anton Nicodemus, right? Like, you know, he is one who really helped me how to like, be a little bit more precise and more direct in a certain way. Ann Hoff, who taught me how to, let's say, navigate
Anika Howard: She is amazing. Yeah.
Alex Dixon: a space in Las Vegas, right? You know Eric, who, who was my predecessor at, at, at Circus Circus, right?
But then when I talk about mentorship, right, it's Michael Chrome. When Mike got my first job, he, you know, taught me how to do things, like Mark Chicano taught me how to do things. You know, Marcus Glover, right? I followed his, when Marcus would get promoted, there were two to three rungs down the line where I'd get an opportunity, right. Brandy Ellis, who like really helped me get rooted in, in, in in VIP, Michael Masari, like just all, like so many different people.
Anika Howard: And the name goes on. I mean, there's just some legends and titans that, I was gonna say, I graduated from the best university, Caesars Entertainment because you have like, it was just such a dearth of talent there and so many people that have been, yeah.
Alex Dixon: David Hunningmeyer, like, right. Just understanding and having examples of so many different, and so what I think is the big piece, and this is commentary, so as, let's say private equity has in, let's say, had its influence within, let's call it traditional, large multinational you know, kind of gaming companies, one of the roles that got eliminated are these executive associates or chiefs of staff, as well as President's Associates program.
That investment in people have high talented people who can kind of go off is really I'm really struggling with how do we have the next generation who's coming up behind us? Because if you're only, if you get stuck at that shift manager or outlet manager role, but you have no ability to see the business horizontally, it's really hard to break through to that next level.
And so we were blessed 'cause we had those types of opportunities, but that's why I just struggle and I look back like, where's the director and VP cohort that's ready to step up into these new, new roles? And I'd be remiss if I did not mention Jim Miren.
Jim Miren now my sponsor, right? Where Marcus Glover is my mentor, if that makes sense.
Anika Howard: No, that makes a lot of sense. I kind of made this analogy that like your mentor is your coach, and your sponsor is like your agent, right?
So, so I always kind of, you know, when I think of it, I think of it that way. And I think, you know, this is a good pivot again to African Americans in Gaming because I think that's where I feel like one I'm so proud of, kind of from where we envisioned it to where it is right now.
But that is where we're seeing where there these rotation programs and some of these things are not as prevalent, and creating this connection so that you can have access to and understand and see a path forward.
Why don't you talk a little bit about kind of the, the genesis of African Americans in Gaming and if you feel like it's lived up to its original goals and like where do you feel like the, the opportunity beyond is?
Alex Dixon: That's amazing. So one, let's say the genesis of African Americans in Gaming. So I went back maybe four or five years ago, which seems forever, but you know, I was very fortunate to come back to Las Vegas and serve as a President, Chief Operating Officer at Circus Circus.
I was maybe 38, and so, like, again, being born in Vegas, leaving and coming back and then being a president of the property on the strip, it's like, Hey, this is awesome. And so it was at that point where then I went from head down trying to feed my family, just, you know, contributing my 401k trying to get my life together right? Like to saying, Hey, let me start to pay attention to the industry.
So then I went to G2E on the gaming floor and I mean just on the exhibition floor, and I went and looked around and I said, man. This, the complexion of the, let's say the enterprise, which is gaming, does not reflect or look anything like, whether it's the employee base or just the customer base.
So I said, hold on, if this is almost intimidating of me, and I'm the president of a property on the Las Vegas strip, how, let's say, is it for the assistant manager, the manager, or all these other different things?
And so where, where is the table in the lunchroom where I'm supposed to sit? Like if you just take yourself back to high school and like, okay, hey, new kid in school, and where do I sit down right?
In that case, like there just was no table. And so what we started out doing was, you know, the first one we, we, it was a happy hour. meet and greet, over at Mama Rabbit over at Park MGM. Then the next year we were together over at let's see, it was a Caesar's property...
Anika Howard: Was it? Yeah, it was the Cromwell. Was it the Cromwell? Yeah.
Alex Dixon: Yeah. So we were over at the Cromwell and so it was so powerful of just convening.
Anika Howard: Yeah.
Alex Dixon: Because we literally had the industry represented in those meetings, because you had a board member from MGM, you had, Sandra was, you know chair of the gaming control board, right. You, you know, Nathan and Jackie and all these other, you know, people.
Anika Howard: Pictures from that event still keep circulating, I love that we, that whenever, you know, someone gets promoted, whatever we're posting and we, going back to that, that event and there were just so many powerful people just, you know, kind of showed up and it wasn't sponsored.
We, you know, we were kind of, everyone was like, out of pocket and it just amazing.
Alex Dixon: To convene a hundred people during G2E and not have to spend a dime, right? Like, I mean, it's just a powerful movement. So all that said is, you know, at first, like most things, you have to create a sense of community, then we, you know, went online and, and, and have now a LinkedIn group where we have 500 plus people from literally all over the world of, let's call it managers, all the way up to, to board members. But really the power of of African gaming is nothing that happens online.
And you, you know, this is that what's now happening is across America. You know, African American mayors are really like leading the expansion of gaming.
So if you look at New York, Houston, Dallas, LA, Chicago, Charlotte Richmond, five of the new cities in Virginia that have opened up all of these communities have black mayors. And all these places are where there's, you know, black mayors are gonna be, you know, introducing gaming into the community.
And so what invariably happens is an African American investor in that area says, Hey, I heard that's the casino thing, you know, I, I kind of see you and Anika round, or Kim or somebody, like, tell me about what, tell me about what's going on or should I invest or whatever else.
In many ways as we can be let's say a messenger for the industry that says, Hey, yes these bring good jobs. It's, there's, we're not the boogeyman. We do this responsibly, yes, you should invest and yes, you should move forward. Same thing with legislators to be able to say, Hey, how do I think about this?
The industry is the industry. It's just a matter of the channel in which you, let's say, speak to. And so what's great now is that, you know you and Kim are now the co-chairs, right? What, what I love about Kim is that look, she is a lawyer, right? A general counsel. So she is going to get us, incorporated, have the structure correct, make sure that we've got all the good internal pieces working right.
Because the brand, I think is, is great because now over the last two and a half years, as you know, we have strategic relationships with SBC, with Clarion, with Reed Exhibitions, with IAGA so that we have a physical presence at everywhere the organization exists. And now hopefully with your help, we'll have a presence at the Indian Gaming Association or Tribal Gaming Association.
Anika Howard: Yep.
Alex Dixon: So that we can show up in those places because I am just in awe of, you know, 37 years ago, 38 years ago, tribal gaming didn't exist.
Anika Howard: It did not,
Alex Dixon: It's $44 billion industry, and I love this notion, 'cause I think Ernie shared it at the, you know, at ICE he said, they said they think in seven generations. They think in the concept of seven generations.
You juxtapose that with private equity, who thinks in like seven year cycles, it's like, hold on, like, hey, something
Anika Howard: For the long haul.
Alex Dixon: Not necessarily something's gotta give, but this is, there's a space there in the middle and I'm excited you know, where African Americans in Gaming is headed.
Anika Howard: No. Absolutely. And so Alex you've made such an amazing impact on the gaming industry, what is the legacy you hope to leave behind? I mean, we've had such this great conversation of, of all the things, and so now if you look towards the future, when you kind of do your swan song, what do you want people to, to remember most?
Alex Dixon: Well first is like here lies a good, you know humble man and who, who's, who's done well for the communities in which he served. I think separate from that, this notion of nonprofit gaming, which I now am fortunate to lead here at Q Casino and DRA much like, you know, tribal gaming did not exist, you know, again, 30, 40 years ago. This notion of utilizing gaming as a tool to help spur economic development and the profits of which can then be used to help targeted communities. I think it's just simply amazing.
Whether it's a rural community, like we're here in Iowa, or a country in Sub-Saharan Africa or in this case you know, look, there were things that were we as African Americans have lost our sovereignty when we came from Africa over here, right? And so right now we're facilitating wealth for communities around the, the country, but I think there's a way that you can utilize gaming. Which is really, you know, our business, it's a pay as you go country club, that's just the basic way to describe it, you know, at least on the brick and mortar side.
And so to that end, you can be very targeted to be able to utilizing this tool to help to help grow grow an economy. And I think whether it's throughout the Caribbean, or throughout the rest of the United States here, I think we wanna make sure that there are multiple ways that you can impact communities and for operators, I want them to know that your legacy is defined by what you do outside the four walls or outside the mobile phone and what you operate
Anika Howard: Yep.
Alex Dixon: Right? And so we have the ability to welcome people to the middle class, and we need to take this solemn obligation and responsibility to, to be fishermen of men and women to help bring people into the Great American pastime, which is the being a part of the middle class.
Anika Howard: Yeah. So Alex, we're so grateful to have you on our podcast, but I know that you do have a podcast of your own, and so we didn't touch a, a lot on kind of the Q casino but why don't you tell us about Dubuque Rising, and a little bit about what you're doing today as we close out.
Alex Dixon: Absolutely. So we're in the midst of a hundred million dollars redevelopment here in Dubuque, Iowa. We are about 20 minutes from the field of dreams, three hours west of Chicago, hour and a half south of Madison. But we are building a new casino, a new boutique hotel, as well as an outdoor amphitheater, great music venue within here.
And then, you know, there's literally a number of podcasts, if you will, but here in Dubuque, I wanted to, I saw a gap in the market that we needed to have a medium to tell the story of Dubuque and our region in an authentic way. So this is by Dubuque-ers about Dubuque related topics.
And so it's hyperlocal, but that is I think that's something that's desperately needed to make sure that our stories, in this case, our business model, meaning this nonprofit gaming, has the ability to reach shores that are far beyond our local community here.
So tune in at Dubuque Rising, you can download it anywhere you get your podcasts to hear a lot of the great stories that are going on in this phenomenal community.
Anika Howard: Consummate professional, I was about to ask exactly that, how can people find out about and, and listen to your podcast.
Alex Dixon: Yeah, go to dradubuque.com, but also you can just go to Dubuque Rising, you know, again, wherever you get your podcasts. We got the great first series, we'll do another one later this year as more of our, our, our construction projects come online.
Anika Howard: Well. Thank you, Alex, for joining me on Level Up with Wondr, this has been an amazing conversation. I absolutely enjoyed it as I always do when we get a chance to connect and I'm sure our listeners will as well. So, once again, thank you for your time and your passion and all the contributions that you've made to gaming.
Alex Dixon: Thank you.
